On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 02:42:14PM +0530, Venu Murthy wrote: Hmm, you're right. maybe it's the sheer volume of email I deal with that prompted me with that tone. Sorry about that, didn't mean any malice there. I don't really agree. Red Hat is not at _fault_. It's a community mailing list, and why would a fair-playing community open source project want to mass-subscribe people thoso who didn't intend to? Venu, as you can imagine, that's exactly the intention. There was even a publicly recorded IRC meeting last evening (doesn't imply everyone needs to keep an eye on it) to update the community mailing list (as the info arrives) and mass-unsubscribe those didn't intend to. The news is still: Mailing list infrastructure team is investigating in a systematic manner to identify the root cause. I think you're looking at the wrong place, unsubscribing doesn't need any password. Here's the correct procedure: Second section on this page is where you see "Unsubscribe" http://www.redhat.com/mailman/options/rdo-list and it clearly says: "By clicking on the Unsubscribe button, a confirmation message will be emailed to you. This message will have a link that you should click on to complete the removal process (you can also confirm by email; see the instructions in the confirmation message)." It's a community mailing list adminstered publicly. On the surface, it appears to be a crack that unfortunately mass-subscribed a bunch of people that didn't intend to. Most community mailing lists go through something like this at some point in time. Blaming won't get us anywhere, some patience is appreciated. Hope you agree there. Again, this was not intended by the RDO project, sorry about that. -- /kashyap

And 100 emails later, it is clear that the majority of folks "perceive" they forcibly subscribed to this list.. list, and why would a those who didn't intend to? So you want to be a Wall-Mart, the low price leader - not Nordstrom's? The customer relationship is not one transaction. When I recommend systems to my fortune 500 clients, government agencies, and military projects what will stick in my mind is the 100 emails and Red Hat doesn't give a crap what I want only what it can get away with in this case. This didn't work so well for Toyota when they doubled production and breaks stuck and they also said - not our fault, not happening. And it didn't work too well for Starbucks when they stuck their coffee in gas stations. Redhat went from A to B in my book. HP, SUSE and other OpenStack solutions are feeling better at this point. I guess I will burn time, jump through your hoops, to correct your mistake, if it was a mistake. Good luck with the "screw you customer" strategy. That won't work in the USA. We tend to be brand loyal except when loyalty isn't returned. Thanks, DANIEL L. NEEDLES Principal Consultant NMSGuru, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: rdo-list-bounces(a)redhat.com [mailto:rdo-list-bounces@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Kashyap Chamarthy Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:43 AM To: Venu Murthy Cc: rdo-list(a)redhat.com Subject: Re: [Rdo-list] Unsubscribe requests On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 02:42:14PM +0530, Venu Murthy wrote: Hmm, you're right. maybe it's the sheer volume of email I deal with that prompted me with that tone. Sorry about that, didn't mean any malice there. I don't really agree. Red Hat is not at _fault_. It's a community mailing list, and why would a fair-playing community open source project want to mass-subscribe people thoso who didn't intend to? Venu, as you can imagine, that's exactly the intention. There was even a publicly recorded IRC meeting last evening (doesn't imply everyone needs to keep an eye on it) to update the community mailing list (as the info arrives) and mass-unsubscribe those didn't intend to. The news is still: Mailing list infrastructure team is investigating in a systematic manner to identify the root cause. I think you're looking at the wrong place, unsubscribing doesn't need any password. Here's the correct procedure: Second section on this page is where you see "Unsubscribe" http://www.redhat.com/mailman/options/rdo-list and it clearly says: "By clicking on the Unsubscribe button, a confirmation message will be emailed to you. This message will have a link that you should click on to complete the removal process (you can also confirm by email; see the instructions in the confirmation message)." It's a community mailing list adminstered publicly. On the surface, it appears to be a crack that unfortunately mass-subscribed a bunch of people that didn't intend to. Most community mailing lists go through something like this at some point in time. Blaming won't get us anywhere, some patience is appreciated. Hope you agree there. Again, this was not intended by the RDO project, sorry about that. -- /kashyap _______________________________________________ Rdo-list mailing list Rdo-list(a)redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/rdo-list To unsubscribe: rdo-list-unsubscribe(a)redhat.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4260/8933 - Release Date: 01/15/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.

We are in violent agreement. RedHat doesn't give a crap about its brand perception. If it did, it would understand why Customer Service is the issue AND would want to mend the "emotions" rather than argue with the customer. Good luck with that. http://www.nmsguru.com/DanNeedles.jpg DANIEL L. NEEDLES Principal Consultant NMSGuru, Inc. <http://www.nmsguru.com> 512.627.6694 <skype:danielneedles> guru(a)nmsguru.com <http://bit.ly/1amoW7Z> http://www.nmsguru.com/TerminalConnectionBanner.png <http://www.linkedin.com/in/danneedles> http://www.nmsguru.com/EMAIL/LinkedIn-high-detail-32.png <http://www.facebook.com/daniel.needles> http://www.nmsguru.com/EMAIL/Facebook-high-detail-32.png <http://twitter.com/DanNeedles?utm_campaign=newfollow20100823&utm_cont... http://www.nmsguru.com/EMAIL/Twitter-high-detail-32.png From: Tomas Olivares [mailto:tolivares@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:01 AM To: Daniel L. Needles; Kashyap Chamarthy; Venu Murthy Cc: customerservice(a)redhat.com; rdo-list(a)redhat.com Subject: Re: [Rdo-list] Unsubscribe requests Note that Perry already said it was some sort of error. They are not trying to convince people otherwise: https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2015-January/msg00144.html It's been said numerous times they are looking into the problem. I'm not sure where you are seeing this "doesn't give a crap" strategy. IMO, it's your "perception" and that's fine. So you are blaming Red Hat for a mailing list issue and will be giving advice to customers based on it? Not on the fact that your customers need the best quality product? And I'm not saying it has to be Red Hat, but it could've been SUSE, HP, or any other. You're mixing concepts again. Once again, community vs Red Hat is a very different label. And the "screw you Red Hat due to a mistake" isn't the best approach either. Cheers, PS: I'm removing the cc to customerservice(a)redhat.com as it has absolutely no business to do with this issue. On Thu Jan 22 2015 at 2:34:51 PM Daniel L. Needles <dneedles(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: And 100 emails later, it is clear that the majority of folks "perceive" they forcibly subscribed to this list.. list, and why would a those who didn't intend to? So you want to be a Wall-Mart, the low price leader - not Nordstrom's? The customer relationship is not one transaction. When I recommend systems to my fortune 500 clients, government agencies, and military projects what will stick in my mind is the 100 emails and Red Hat doesn't give a crap what I want only what it can get away with in this case. This didn't work so well for Toyota when they doubled production and breaks stuck and they also said - not our fault, not happening. And it didn't work too well for Starbucks when they stuck their coffee in gas stations. Redhat went from A to B in my book. HP, SUSE and other OpenStack solutions are feeling better at this point. I guess I will burn time, jump through your hoops, to correct your mistake, if it was a mistake. Good luck with the "screw you customer" strategy. That won't work in the USA. We tend to be brand loyal except when loyalty isn't returned. Thanks, DANIEL L. NEEDLES Principal Consultant NMSGuru, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: rdo-list-bounces(a)redhat.com [mailto:rdo-list-bounces@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Kashyap Chamarthy Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:43 AM To: Venu Murthy Cc: rdo-list(a)redhat.com Subject: Re: [Rdo-list] Unsubscribe requests On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 02:42:14PM +0530, Venu Murthy wrote: Hmm, you're right. maybe it's the sheer volume of email I deal with that prompted me with that tone. Sorry about that, didn't mean any malice there. I don't really agree. Red Hat is not at _fault_. It's a community mailing list, and why would a fair-playing community open source project want to mass-subscribe people thoso who didn't intend to? Venu, as you can imagine, that's exactly the intention. There was even a publicly recorded IRC meeting last evening (doesn't imply everyone needs to keep an eye on it) to update the community mailing list (as the info arrives) and mass-unsubscribe those didn't intend to. The news is still: Mailing list infrastructure team is investigating in a systematic manner to identify the root cause. I think you're looking at the wrong place, unsubscribing doesn't need any password. Here's the correct procedure: Second section on this page is where you see "Unsubscribe" http://www.redhat.com/mailman/options/rdo-list and it clearly says: "By clicking on the Unsubscribe button, a confirmation message will be emailed to you. This message will have a link that you should click on to complete the removal process (you can also confirm by email; see the instructions in the confirmation message)." It's a community mailing list adminstered publicly. On the surface, it appears to be a crack that unfortunately mass-subscribed a bunch of people that didn't intend to. Most community mailing lists go through something like this at some point in time. Blaming won't get us anywhere, some patience is appreciated. Hope you agree there. Again, this was not intended by the RDO project, sorry about that. -- /kashyap _______________________________________________ Rdo-list mailing list Rdo-list(a)redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/rdo-list To unsubscribe: rdo-list-unsubscribe(a)redhat.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4260/8933 - Release Date: 01/15/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date. _______________________________________________ Rdo-list mailing list Rdo-list(a)redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/rdo-list To unsubscribe: rdo-list-unsubscribe(a)redhat.com _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4260/8933 - Release Date: 01/15/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.