[Rdo-list] Unsubscribe requests
Daniel L. Needles
dneedles at gmail.com
Thu Jan 22 18:04:19 UTC 2015
We are in violent agreement. RedHat doesn't give a crap about its brand perception. If it did, it would understand why Customer Service is the issue AND would want to mend the "emotions" rather than argue with the customer. Good luck with that.
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DANIEL L. NEEDLES
Principal Consultant
NMSGuru, Inc. <http://www.nmsguru.com>
512.627.6694 <skype:danielneedles>
guru at nmsguru.com
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From: Tomas Olivares [mailto:tolivares at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:01 AM
To: Daniel L. Needles; Kashyap Chamarthy; Venu Murthy
Cc: customerservice at redhat.com; rdo-list at redhat.com
Subject: Re: [Rdo-list] Unsubscribe requests
>> And 100 emails later, it is clear that the majority of folks "perceive" they
>> forcibly subscribed to this list..
Note that Perry already said it was some sort of error. They are not trying to convince people otherwise:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2015-January/msg00144.html
>>So you want to be a Wall-Mart, the low price leader - not Nordstrom's >>The customer relationship is not one transaction. When I recommend >>systems to my fortune 500 clients, government agencies, and military >>projects what will stick in my mind is the 100 emails and Red Hat >>doesn't give a crap what I want only what it can get away with in this case.
It's been said numerous times they are looking into the problem. I'm not sure where you are seeing this "doesn't give a crap" strategy. IMO, it's your "perception" and that's fine.
>>This didn't work so well for Toyota when they doubled production and >>breaks stuck and they also said - not our fault, not happening. And it >>didn't work too well for Starbucks when they stuck their coffee in gas >>stations. Redhat went from A to B in my book. HP, SUSE and other >>OpenStack solutions are feeling better at this point.
So you are blaming Red Hat for a mailing list issue and will be giving advice to customers based on it? Not on the fact that your customers need the best quality product? And I'm not saying it has to be Red Hat, but it could've been SUSE, HP, or any other. You're mixing concepts again.
>>I guess I will burn time, jump through your hoops, to correct your >>mistake, if it was a mistake. Good luck with the "screw you customer" >>strategy. That won't work in the USA. We tend to be brand loyal except >>when loyalty isn't returned.
Once again, community vs Red Hat is a very different label. And the "screw you Red Hat due to a mistake" isn't the best approach either.
Cheers,
PS: I'm removing the cc to customerservice at redhat.com as it has absolutely no business to do with this issue.
On Thu Jan 22 2015 at 2:34:51 PM Daniel L. Needles <dneedles at gmail.com> wrote:
And 100 emails later, it is clear that the majority of folks "perceive" they
forcibly subscribed to this list..
>>I don't really agree. Red Hat is not at _fault_. It's a community mailing
list, and why would a
>>fair-playing community open source project want to mass-subscribe people
those who didn't intend to?
So you want to be a Wall-Mart, the low price leader - not Nordstrom's? The
customer relationship is not one transaction. When I recommend systems to my
fortune 500 clients, government agencies, and military projects what will
stick in my mind is the 100 emails and Red Hat doesn't give a crap what I
want only what it can get away with in this case.
This didn't work so well for Toyota when they doubled production and breaks
stuck and they also said - not our fault, not happening. And it didn't work
too well for Starbucks when they stuck their coffee in gas stations. Redhat
went from A to B in my book. HP, SUSE and other OpenStack solutions are
feeling better at this point.
I guess I will burn time, jump through your hoops, to correct your mistake,
if it was a mistake. Good luck with the "screw you customer" strategy. That
won't work in the USA. We tend to be brand loyal except when loyalty isn't
returned.
Thanks,
DANIEL L. NEEDLES
Principal Consultant
NMSGuru, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: rdo-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:rdo-list-bounces at redhat.com] On
Behalf Of Kashyap Chamarthy
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:43 AM
To: Venu Murthy
Cc: rdo-list at redhat.com
Subject: Re: [Rdo-list] Unsubscribe requests
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 02:42:14PM +0530, Venu Murthy wrote:
> This mail was rather rude Kashyap, and I would have expected a little
> more considerate reply,
Hmm, you're right. maybe it's the sheer volume of email I deal with that
prompted me with that tone. Sorry about that, didn't mean any malice there.
> because it is your company that is at fault here.
I don't really agree. Red Hat is not at _fault_. It's a community mailing
list, and why would a fair-playing community open source project want to
mass-subscribe people thoso who didn't intend to?
> Why is it so much a trouble for you go ahead and investigate and
> remove all those IDs that were added in by mistake? Or update all on
> what has been done so far?
Venu, as you can imagine, that's exactly the intention. There was even a
publicly recorded IRC meeting last evening (doesn't imply everyone needs to
keep an eye on it) to update the community mailing list (as the info
arrives) and mass-unsubscribe those didn't intend to.
The news is still: Mailing list infrastructure team is investigating in a
systematic manner to identify the root cause.
> Btw when we go to unsubscribe it asks for a password,
I think you're looking at the wrong place, unsubscribing doesn't need any
password. Here's the correct procedure: Second section on this page is where
you see "Unsubscribe"
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/options/rdo-list
and it clearly says:
"By clicking on the Unsubscribe button, a confirmation message will
be emailed to you. This message will have a link that you should
click on to complete the removal process (you can also confirm by
email; see the instructions in the confirmation message)."
> and then we have to do a password reset and so on to unsubscribe from
> a mailing list, that we've never subscribed to and I don't even know
> how my email id has landed up with your company. That's another can of
> worms to investigate I suppose, or is that too my fault.
It's a community mailing list adminstered publicly. On the surface, it
appears to be a crack that unfortunately mass-subscribed a bunch of people
that didn't intend to.
Most community mailing lists go through something like this at some point in
time. Blaming won't get us anywhere, some patience is appreciated. Hope you
agree there.
Again, this was not intended by the RDO project, sorry about that.
--
/kashyap
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