<div>>> And 100 emails later, it is clear that the majority of folks "perceive" they<br>>> forcibly subscribed to this list..<br></div><div>Note that Perry already said it was some sort of error. They are not trying to convince people otherwise:</div><div><a href="https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2015-January/msg00144.html">https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2015-January/msg00144.html</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">>>So you want to be a Wall-Mart, the low price leader - not Nordstrom's >>The </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">customer relationship is not one transaction. When I recommend >>systems to my </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">fortune 500 clients, government agencies, and military >>projects what will </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">stick in my mind is the 100 emails and Red Hat >>doesn't give a crap what I </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">want only what it can get away with in this case.</span><br style="line-height:19.7999992370605px"></div>It's been said numerous times they are looking into the problem. I'm not sure where you are seeing this "doesn't give a crap" strategy. IMO, it's your "perception" and that's fine.<div><br></div><div><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">>>This didn't work so well for Toyota when they doubled production and >>breaks </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">stuck and they also said - not our fault, not happening. And it >>didn't work </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">too well for Starbucks when they stuck their coffee in gas >>stations. Redhat </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">went from A to B in my book. HP, SUSE and other >>OpenStack solutions are </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">feeling better at this point.</span><br style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">So you are blaming Red Hat for a mailing list issue and will be giving advice to customers based on it? Not on the fact that your customers need the best quality product? And I'm not saying it has to be Red Hat, but it could've been SUSE, HP, or any other. You're mixing concepts again.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">>>I guess I will burn time, jump through your hoops, to correct your >>mistake, </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">if it was a mistake. Good luck with the "screw you customer" >>strategy. That </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">won't work in the USA. We tend to be brand loyal except >>when loyalty isn't </span><span style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">returned.</span><br style="line-height:19.7999992370605px">Once again, community vs Red Hat is a very different label. And the "screw you Red Hat due to a mistake" isn't the best approach either.<br><br><br>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>PS: I'm removing the cc to <a href="mailto:customerservice@redhat.com">customerservice@redhat.com</a> as it has absolutely no business to do with this issue.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu Jan 22 2015 at 2:34:51 PM Daniel L. Needles <<a href="mailto:dneedles@gmail.com">dneedles@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">And 100 emails later, it is clear that the majority of folks "perceive" they<br>
forcibly subscribed to this list..<br>
<br>
>>I don't really agree. Red Hat is not at _fault_. It's a community mailing<br>
list, and why would a<br>
>>fair-playing community open source project want to mass-subscribe people<br>
those who didn't intend to?<br>
<br>
So you want to be a Wall-Mart, the low price leader - not Nordstrom's? The<br>
customer relationship is not one transaction. When I recommend systems to my<br>
fortune 500 clients, government agencies, and military projects what will<br>
stick in my mind is the 100 emails and Red Hat doesn't give a crap what I<br>
want only what it can get away with in this case.<br>
<br>
This didn't work so well for Toyota when they doubled production and breaks<br>
stuck and they also said - not our fault, not happening. And it didn't work<br>
too well for Starbucks when they stuck their coffee in gas stations. Redhat<br>
went from A to B in my book. HP, SUSE and other OpenStack solutions are<br>
feeling better at this point.<br>
<br>
I guess I will burn time, jump through your hoops, to correct your mistake,<br>
if it was a mistake. Good luck with the "screw you customer" strategy. That<br>
won't work in the USA. We tend to be brand loyal except when loyalty isn't<br>
returned.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
DANIEL L. NEEDLES<br>
Principal Consultant<br>
NMSGuru, Inc.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:rdo-list-bounces@redhat.com" target="_blank">rdo-list-bounces@redhat.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:rdo-list-bounces@redhat.com" target="_blank">rdo-list-bounces@<u></u>redhat.com</a>] On<br>
Behalf Of Kashyap Chamarthy<br>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:43 AM<br>
To: Venu Murthy<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:rdo-list@redhat.com" target="_blank">rdo-list@redhat.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Rdo-list] Unsubscribe requests<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 02:42:14PM +0530, Venu Murthy wrote:<br>
> This mail was rather rude Kashyap, and I would have expected a little<br>
> more considerate reply,<br>
<br>
Hmm, you're right. maybe it's the sheer volume of email I deal with that<br>
prompted me with that tone. Sorry about that, didn't mean any malice there.<br>
<br>
> because it is your company that is at fault here.<br>
<br>
I don't really agree. Red Hat is not at _fault_. It's a community mailing<br>
list, and why would a fair-playing community open source project want to<br>
mass-subscribe people thoso who didn't intend to?<br>
<br>
> Why is it so much a trouble for you go ahead and investigate and<br>
> remove all those IDs that were added in by mistake? Or update all on<br>
> what has been done so far?<br>
<br>
Venu, as you can imagine, that's exactly the intention. There was even a<br>
publicly recorded IRC meeting last evening (doesn't imply everyone needs to<br>
keep an eye on it) to update the community mailing list (as the info<br>
arrives) and mass-unsubscribe those didn't intend to.<br>
<br>
The news is still: Mailing list infrastructure team is investigating in a<br>
systematic manner to identify the root cause.<br>
<br>
> Btw when we go to unsubscribe it asks for a password,<br>
<br>
I think you're looking at the wrong place, unsubscribing doesn't need any<br>
password. Here's the correct procedure: Second section on this page is where<br>
you see "Unsubscribe"<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.redhat.com/mailman/options/rdo-list" target="_blank">http://www.redhat.com/mailman/<u></u>options/rdo-list</a><br>
<br>
and it clearly says:<br>
<br>
"By clicking on the Unsubscribe button, a confirmation message will<br>
be emailed to you. This message will have a link that you should<br>
click on to complete the removal process (you can also confirm by<br>
email; see the instructions in the confirmation message)."<br>
<br>
> and then we have to do a password reset and so on to unsubscribe from<br>
> a mailing list, that we've never subscribed to and I don't even know<br>
> how my email id has landed up with your company. That's another can of<br>
> worms to investigate I suppose, or is that too my fault.<br>
<br>
It's a community mailing list adminstered publicly. On the surface, it<br>
appears to be a crack that unfortunately mass-subscribed a bunch of people<br>
that didn't intend to.<br>
<br>
Most community mailing lists go through something like this at some point in<br>
time. Blaming won't get us anywhere, some patience is appreciated. Hope you<br>
agree there.<br>
<br>
Again, this was not intended by the RDO project, sorry about that.<br>
<br>
--<br>
/kashyap<br>
<br>
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